Someone swimming (simple exercise)

[bob@GNU.AI.MIT.EDU]

Let's consider how to translate the following from English to Lojban:

    I saw someone swimming.

There are numerous issues:

The `I saw' part translates as

    mi pu ze'a zgana
    I/We <travel into past> <for a medium interval of time>  behold

or perhaps as

    mi pu mo'u zgana
    I/We <travel into past> <completitive> behold

I think {pu ze'a} is closer to a likely English meaning: I am not
focusing on having completed looking, but on having seen for a while.

Another issue is whether the English `I' is best translated as {mi},
meaning `I/We ' or {mi poi pavysei} meaning `I who am a
oneness-apart.'  I think the naked {mi} is best.  The English speaker
probably is not concerned whether he or she is the only person to have
seen the swimming (although in a mystery story he or she might be).

A third issue is whether {zgana} or {viska} are better choices for `saw':

    zgana
    x1 observes/[notices]/watches/behold x2 using senses/means x3
    under conditions x4

    viska
    x1 sees/perceives visually x2 under conditions x3

I think if I just caught sight of someone swimming, for a short period
of time, I would write

    mi pu ze'i viska

but I am likely to look at someone swimming for a while, to observe
them, so {mi pu ze'a zgana} is a better choice.

I don't think there is likely to be a question as to how I beheld the
swimming, whether by hearing or seeing, so {viska zgana}, {vi'azga} is
not needed.  (Of course, if I observed by hearing, I would say {tirna
zgana}, {tinzga}.)


Now, what did I see?

    mi pu ze'a zgana le limna
    I saw what I designate as swimming.

This works, but could refer to a toy submarine gliding under water.

    mi pu ze'a zgana lo limna
    I saw that which is for real swimming.

This is somewhat better.  We have `for real' swimming.  However, {lo
limna} focuses the listener's attention on the x1 place of {limna};
this Lojban sentence might be translated back into English as

    I saw a real swimmer.

This is not the spirit of `I saw someone swimming', except in the
context of:

    I saw someone swimming beyond the rocks
    mi pu ze'a zgana lo limna ze'o lo rokci

In that context, my focus is on the x1 place.

However, in general, my utterance is about an activity that I saw:

    mi pu ze'a zgana le zu'o limna
    I saw what I designate as an activity of swimming.

Closer, but this could apply to a bunch of toy submarines gliding
about.

    mi pu ze'a zgana lo zu'o limna
    I saw what is really an activity of swimming.

Yet closer, but this could apply to fish as well as people.  Usually,
the English `someone' refers to a person.

    mi pu ze'a zgana lo zu'o le prenu cu limna
    I saw what is really an activity of one or more what I designate
    as people swimming.

Hmm... a bunch of monkeys swimming?

    mi pu ze'a zgana lo zu'o lo prenu cu limna
    I saw what is really an activity of one or more of what really
    are people swimming.

The original English specified `someone'; we need to restrict the number:

    mi pu ze'a zgana lo zu'o pa lo prenu cu limna
    I saw an activity of one person swimming.

This would do, but I suggest that it misses the spirit of the English,
which is not telling you much about the person, nor focusing on number
(unless you are a logician).

Consider the following:

    mi pu ze'a zgana lo zu'o loi prenu cu limna
    I saw an activity of Mr. Person swimming.

This is closer to the spirit of the English:

    I saw someone swimming.

However, it seems to me that the closest to the spirit of the English
is actually an expression that does not translate strictly:

    mi pu ze'a zgana loi limna
    I saw a manifestation of Swim.

If I were on the beach, I think this is what I would say.

    Robert J. Chassell               bob@grackle.stockbridge.ma.us
    25 Rattlesnake Mountain Road     bob@gnu.ai.mit.edu
    Stockbridge, MA 01262-0693 USA   (413) 298-4725