Re: TRO: subject labels; PLI: se'i/dai

[Goran Topic <topic@STUDENT.MATH.HR>]

> As Lojbab says, people forget to use labels, and threads wander.

I don't know. Labels as proposed are not too hard to remember: they're
all (except VRC) three-letter rafsi of the lojban words describing the
contents of the message. I remember how the Klingon list had tags like
KBTP (Klingon Bible Translation Project), KSRP (Klingon Shakespeare
Restoration Project) and KBCP (? I can't remember if this is right, that
was a year and a half ago, but it meant beginners' chat and questions.)
Everybody knew what they meant, everybody used them when the subject was
something that fell into these categories. Everything not tagged was
advanced discussion or texts on higher level. There was an office of
Beginners' Grammarian (BG) whose job was to read all the beginners' mail
and correct them. So, the list was effectively divided into several
lesser ones: beginners read only what they could understand, i.e. simple
questions about language and beginner-level chat, and moved on to other
msgs when they thought they were ready; Advanced users could skip over
beginners' mail, as they always aksed the same questions, and they knew
that they would be answered by the BG. And I could skip over the Bible
translations as I never had much interest in that part of the list. It
worked quite well. And if there was a question raised on the beginners'
sublist that caused the BG to be uncertain, the subject was moved into
general list where the advanced users could do tech discussions without
the fear of scaring the poor beginners off.

As for vei,on's tags, I never heard of them. You guys invented that
before my time, and it wasn't in the list intro, or any other document I
have read, IIRC. I *have* seen TECH: on the list, but thought it was an
ad-hoc, and not a proposed and accepted convention. And that works
double for the TEXT:: I've seen it rarely (as noone writes any lojban),
and considered it even more ad-hoc. The tags should be either used often
enough to make one wonder about them when one joins the list enough to
ask, or, much better solution, put it in the FAQ or list intro. Without
that, tags have the chances of a snowball in the hell.

Besides, I for one usually update the subject line accordingly. I know
that I am speaking from my own standpoint, but I don't see the tags as a
bad idea.

> Rather than push for a well defined set, let's be fuzzy!  {.oi dai zo'o}

Works for me. Take any rafsi, put it in the uppercase, and stick it at
the front of the subject. If that is not sufficient (which I think
should be), take any lojban, make lujvo out of it, ucase it and put it
in. These lujvo wouldn't be standard ones, wouldn't be found in the
jvoste, and would generally mean what the gismu would mean if you stuck
jo'u (or ju'e :)) between them. So, GLIJBO could indicate that there is
English and lojban, but I don't think it necessary.

> As a general rule of conduct, I suggest that posters attempt some
> categorization of messages, but not worrry about fitting into agreed
> upon categories.  Few will remember to use them.
>
> If you are writing something that has Lojban and English, and it
> shouldn't be too hard, say something like `Lojban/English' or even
> `Lojban/English (easy)' after the topic.
>
> If your posting is hard and technical, append `hard, tech' to the title.

Too verbose. My mail reader displays only the first 30-40 characters of the
subject line. That's why I wanted to use 3-letter strings.

You still haven't persuaded me that it is a Bad Thing (tm), so I'll continue
using them. If you really have something against them, tell me and I'll stop.
They just might catch on. And, if nobody except me starts using them in some
time, I'll admit that I was wrong and will desist. What do you say?


> If I understand rightly, {.oi dai zo'o} means `I feel how that hurt
> you, but the expression is meant humorously'.

Yep.

> On the other hand, {.oi se'inai zo'o} means `I expect you to feel
> hurt, but the expression is meant humorously'.

I think that it means "I complain about something that isn't me, but
take it graciously, so I am humorous when speaking about it" :)
as opposed to "I complain about me, and joke about it".

mu'a

Teacher:   do djuno ma ko'a         What can you tell me about ...?
Student 1: .i noda .oise'i          Nothing. (Damn, why don't I know that?)
Student 2: .i noda .oise'inai       Nothing. (Ain't fair, I get all the
                                      hard questions. He hates me.)

co'o mi'e. goran.

--
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!n(+@) y+. GeekCode v2.1, modifications left to reader to puzzle out