Re: RET: proposing a lujvo

[Mark Vines <vinesm@wholefoods.com>]

la lojbab. spuda mi di'e

> Most likely, for many concepts, there could exist
> several plausible words and they might have a variety
> of place structures according to the lujvo making
> chapter of the refgrammar (or any other means of
> determining said place structures).

Let's look again at my proposed place structure for
{gimterzbavla} (gismu ingredient word):

  x1 $zbasu3 $=valsi1
  x2 $gismu1
  x3 $valsi3

I put gismu1 in the 2nd place because I felt that the
meronym-holonym relation was the most important in
the {gimterzbavla} concept.

But valsi3 is related to zbasu3=valsi1 yet unrelated
to gismu1.  In my proposed place structure, gismu1
makes a kind of wall which separates valsi3 from
the related sumti zbasu3=valsi1.  This wall of separation
strikes me as unfortunate or, at best, inelegant.

I wonder if the place structure

  x1 $zbasu3 $=valsi1
  x2 $valsi3
  x3 $gismu1

might not be better than the one I've proposed.  As
there is no authority for deciding such issues, I'd
appreciate advice from just about anybody.

> I am not sure I know what you mean by [{solsetyvi'u}]
> - removing a layer of a star not being something that
> occurs in everyday life.

No, but it is one of the only two methods thus far
proposed for improving the likelihood that DNA-kind
will still exist in 6000000000 years.

The other method:  creating new biospheres by terra-
forming planets (or other habitats) elsewhere in space.

> There is key context information missing like who/what
> is doing the removal,

I've thought about that.  But {solsetyvi'u} should
prolong the {selxaktei} of the sun, no matter who or
what is doing it.

Big satellites orbiting near the sun, powered by solar
energy, could generate intense magnetic fields that
would peel a layer of hydrogen off the sun - or so say
proponents of {solsetyvi'u}.

> and what is left after this removal, that would likely
> be implicit in a proper definition of solsentyvi'u.

The lujvo definitions I've seen appear to follow a set
of conventions which differ from those used in English
definitions, & even from those used in gismu definitions.

> It is not clear what you mean by "layer" either.

This would be defined by the satellites - their size,
their number, their distance from the sun, the intensity
of their magnetic fields - & by the internal electro-
magnetic structure of the sun.  So the meaning of "layer"
is likely to remain unclear throughout my lifetime.

> Clearly going around coining Lojban words for a list of
> English words/concepts is not a particularly definitive
> approach to adding new vocabulary.

Of the lujvo I've proposed in this thread, two of them -
{solsetyvi'u} & {selxaktei} - don't closely resemble any
English word or concept known to me.

But the other one began as a direct attempt to translate
a concept from English.  At first I tried to produce a
Lojbanic translation of the English word "prolong".  Then
I decided that the time component of "prolong" was already
specified elsewhere, so I tried to translate "lengthen"
instead.  Eventually I decided that the most appropriate
lujvo was {zengau}, "agentive increase", which still
relates to words & concepts found in English, but doesn't
resemble "prolong" much at all.

So that which I tried to say underwent a process of change
as I was trying to say it in Lojban.

co'omi'e markl.