Re: zo djuno ce zo jetyju'o

[Rob Zook <rzook@INFORMIX.COM>]

At 05:38 PM 2/20/98 GMT+0, And Rosta wrote:
>Don:
>> > The fact that it is possible to define a lujvo to have
>> > meaning (1), or indeed to have the meaning Lojbab wishes to attribute
>> > to {djuno}, really has no bearing on what the gismu mean, except in
>> > as much as a meaning easily rendered by lujvo might have less claim
>> > to be expressed by a gismu.
>>
>> 'djuno' means what the baseline says it does, i.e. what lojbab >>intended.
>
>This is surely the crux. Are we really going to have to interrogate
>Lojbab at inordinate length about the meaning of every gismu. And
>note that even the gismu that seem straightforward, e.g. djuno, can
>turn out not to be.

But so far only 3 people (by my count anyway) on this list seem to have
problem with the straightforwardness of djuno's entry.


>> > So in this case, the availability of
>> > 'jetyju`o' certainly means there is no pressing *need* to have
>> > {djuno} mean "know", but noone has argued otherwise.
>>
>> Why shackle ourselves with English semantics?  We should be striving to
leave
>>  them behind.  If there is no need to define 'djuno' as English 'know',
why do
>>  it?
>
>This is the mabla anti-malglico attitude rife in Lojban. Just because
>English does things one way doesn't mean Lojban has to do them
>differently.
>
>We just have two competing definitions of {djuno}. One, which is
>different from but akin to English "know", and which has been clearly
>articulated, and the other which Lojbab has been striving to
>articulate with varying degrees of success.
>
>How do we choose between them? - e.g. if we are going to use {djuno},
>which meaning will we intend it to have? Do we just ask Lojbab to
>pronounce on the matter, and do our best to understand what his
>pronouncements mean, and just swallow and accept it if they turn out
>to be incoherent, or do we actually deliberate the issue, looking
>at the intrinsic sensicality of the candidate meanings, and their
>relationship to the meanings of other Lojban vocables?

Perhaps it would help if you could repost this so-called "clearly
articulated" view of djuno? I remember no such animal.


Rob Z.
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