Re: TECH: (attention Ivan!) demonstrative predicate cmavo needed?

[Logical Language Group <lojbab@ACCESS.DIGEX.NET>]

mi'e .djan. .i la lojbab. cusku di'e

> The word I was looking for was a predicate demonstrative.  Adjectively in
> English, it is "that kind of", adverbially: "thusly, that way".
> "me ta" doesn't really do it.  Nora suggested "simsa be ta", which
> covers many USES of such a demonstrative predicate, i.e. in tanru, but
> in itself is not a predicate demonstrative.  I'm thinking we need a cmavo
> that would work like "mo".

I believe that "me ta" is sufficient.  As is well established, "me <sumti>"
is vague, and can mean "du be <sumti>" or "steci be <sumti>" or "simsa be
<sumti>"; in fact, we might almost as well admit that it means "co'e be
<sumti>" and have done, except for the presence of the x2 place of "me"
which means "in aspect...".

Grammatically, "me <pro-sumti>" does work like "mo"; both are tanru-unit-2s,
and no terminator is ever needed.

> Is this need my imagination?  Or is it something essential to a predicate
> language that has been missing because English is less predicate-y than
> Russian.

There are a number of pro-sumti that don't have pro-bridi equivalents.
In all cases "me <pro-sumti>" seems to do the job:

        la maks. me mi mlatu
        Max is a me-ish cat.

> (I wonder how Chinese handles such demonstrative effects?)

>From what I understand (from Wang & Li), the Chinese demonstratives
zhei4 (this), nei4 (that), and nei3 (which one?) are neither pronouns nor
pro-verbs, but rather pattern like quantifiers (p. 104):

        san1 ge ren2
        three CLASSIFIER person
        three people

is exactly analogous to

        zhei4 zhan3 deng1
        this CLASSIFIER lamp
        this lamp

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John Cowan              sharing account <lojbab@access.digex.net> for now
                e'osai ko sarji la lojban.