Re: Word games

[Logical Language Group <lojbab@ACCESS.DIGEX.NET>]

>I thought a better way to teach lojban
>translations of English/other language words would be to create word games
>and puzzles, centred around translation from <any_language> to lojban. For
>example, crosswords with lojban answers and <other_language> clues.
This has been thought of and suggested, but no one has done it.  We have
posted estimated letter frequencies as needed for Scrabble(tm) and cryptograms,
etc.

>This
>would entail translation from the reader's natural language into lojban,
>which I think is possibly more useful than the reverse translation from
>lojban which LogFlash teaches.

Couple of things here.  First of all, LogFlash DOES teach both directions.
You have to skip "New Word Review" mode, which we recommend to anyone really
serious about learning the language anyway (it saves a couple of months,
at the cost of requiring perhaps more significant effort the first time
through the set of words).  The main teaching modes"Gaining Control" and
Maintenance" put most of their emphasis on English-to-Lojban in that you
have to master that direction to call the word "Under Control".  But since
most Lojban learners in recent years have been passive learners who rather than
writing in the language want to read what others have written, and who want to
tackle only a dozen words a day or less (thereby making sure that they will
take over 100 days to get through thhe word list, by which time they will have
forgotten most of the words at the beginning) because they can only do LogFlash
 during a 20 minute lunch break, that is the mode that thestarting learner
defaults to.

The reason for the order is that it is MUCH easier to learn the words Lojban
to English first, albeit only useful for reading text based only on gismu
(which is what most beginners write though).  For example, when I first did
LogFlash back in 1987-88, I found that I got around 50% on recognition with
some review time, but only 30% on REcall (English to Lojban).  Others ranged
as high as 60% on recognition of Lojban words, or as low as 25%, but in
general their Recall percenatge is only around 1/2 their Recognition percentage
the first time thorugh the words.  Having most of your words in the Error pile
is both time consuming and demoralizing.  The current lesson order gives
 somewhat smaller REcall lessons (since you only get the percentage of words
 that you
recognized successfully) and thus smaller error piles.

The second point is that, other than for rote-style memorization style clues,
such as the LogFlash keywords, natural language to Lojban translation is a HARD
problem largely unsuited to beginners.  Most English words, without context,
have several possible Lojban translations, only some of which are gismu.  It
thus becomes difficult to come up with clues that help rather than mislead.
With individual words, it is manageable for the context of a puzzle, where
clues are often supposed to be vague or even misleading.  However, British
style (i.e. cryptic) crosswords, which would be an easier form for Lojban
puzzles, tend to have especially difficult and tricky clues, involving word
play that tends to be specific to the English language.  But the grids
used in that style of crossword are easier toadapt to Lojban.

>I think, though, that it would be an interesting exercise. Does anyone
>have any reasons why this is not practical?

You can try, and saee how people deal with it.  I found thee intense drills to
be the only thing that got nme through to mastery of enough words to function-
ally USE the language, but others, perhaps more language-adept than me may
find less intensive study techniques to be effective, and in any event, more
fun.

lojbab----
lojbab                                                lojbab@access.digex.net
Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc.
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA                        703-385-0273
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: ftp.access.digex.net /pub/access/lojbab
    or see Lojban WWW Server: href="http://xiron.pc.helsinki.fi/lojban/";